March 8 is International Women's Day.  International Women’s Day is celebrated in many countries around the world. It is a day when women are recognized for their achievements without regard to divisions, whether national, ethnic, linguistic, cultural, economic or political.For the women of the world, the Day's symbolism has a wider meaning: It is an occasion to review how far they have come in their struggle for equality, peace and development.

International Women's Day — and the very fact that there has to be such a day — is an occasion to celebrate and reflect.

On this  ocassion   I have requested  R- Sharma, Melody Queen, Matheikal and SPK100  to appear  as my guests and  participate in the discussion  on various subjects relating to the present day woman and her problems.  I am glad  to say all of them honored me with their presence @ Page 3 of Indu.  As all the participants are well known bloggers, they do not need  any further introduction.

     R-Sharma , Melody, Matheikal ,  SPK  welcome to Page 3 of Indu. Thank you for accepting my invitation and for participating in the discussion.

  Indu                   In India woman is given a very respected  position  in the families always. Our culture says  Mathrudevobhava first. Respecting mother  and sisters  is taught to us from the childhood. Today  basing on our  family values can we say  woman have achieved equality with men, if not how far woman herself is responsible, and how far the society in which she lives is responsible? Shall we start  with Melody?

Melody Queen            Men and women are unique and I recognize that. So what is equality? Is it equality at home? Is it equality at the workplace? Is it equality of opportunities? When we talk about gender equality, we mean equal participation of men and women in making decisions, equal opportunities and access to resources, and equal distribution of the benefits of development.

Today, more women are working; more girl children are getting educated; we see more women entrepreneurs, and longevity of women has improved. But there are a lot many legal, financial and policy disparities between men and women still.

We see more and more women taking up employment outside of home, but women still have a higher unemployment rate than men. Women on an average earn lesser than men. Even in the western world, the pay gap between men and women for equal work done is as much as 15%. A vast number of women still have very little power- at work, in their relationships at home, or in the outside world. Two thirds of our female population is illiterate. About 70 per cent of those living in poverty are women. Sexual exploitation and domestic violence are still prevalent. Women continue to have fewer rights, lower education, and lesser access to resources and decision making than men. True, we have made giant strides over the past years; we still have a long way to go.

Now how far is woman herself responsible for the gender disparity? This is a loaded question. Many of the gender discriminations that we see in the outside world have their roots in gender stereotypes that start at home, from the cradle. The home is the base unit. Women, as also other family members at home, are also responsible for reinforcing these stereotypes, which then is replicated in the outside world. A lot of social conditioning then follows. It's a vicious circle. 

Indu                   That  is right  Melody. We have achieved so much and  still long way to go. what  is your opinion Matheikal?

Matheikal                 Women, at least in India, are yet to achieve equality with men, particularly in the rural areas. The society with its deep-rooted tradition of patriarchy is responsible for it to a great extent. Traditions that have the sanction of religious creeds and doctrines have deeper roots in our psyche and hence it’s more difficult that we imagine to grow out of them. But changes are already taking place and they will continue to gather momentum. I don’t think it’s fair to blame the women for the slow pace of the change. However, one thing need to be told: many women did not really grasp the meaning of equality. In early 80s a few American women paraded topless through the city streets in order to prove their equality with men. That was just the wrong way to prove their equality. What they, in fact, paraded was their difference! Women are responsible for the slow pace of the change from a patriarchal system to one based on gender equality insofar as they failed to grasp the essence of gender equality.

Indu                       You are right. In urban areas  though we are finding the situation of woman being changed in rural districts  it is entirely different. May be lack of education is one of the reasons  for the woman in rural areas still not able to know about the gender equality. R-Sharma what do you think?

R-Sharma                  Women have most definitely come a long way in just these last 100 years. Progress has always been a combination of determination and grit. Women have taken on all of the challenges with courage to propel themselves to where they are today. That is not to say that women have achieved equality in every society or every occupation. Generally speaking, the concept of equality is strictly defined by the country, culture, economic conditions, religious influences and family structure. When one looks at really successful women like Condaleeza Rice or Margaret Thatcher, one has to be awestruck by the dizzying heights reached by these women. Mother Teresa is such a revered figure, no man or woman has the courage to judge her level of achievement by the same generic scale! However, when our focus shifts to average middle-class women, we still see them far from breaking the glass ceiling. Even in progressive nations, the structure of society is not conducive to men and women being equal. In India, the conservative family values combined with religious guidelines seem to be the way society defines a woman’s role. In America, the liberal society has not exactly made it any easier for women to achieve equality either.

We do not have to define how and why men have created benchmarks for women to achieve in order to become their equal. Their place in society is well defined already. Just for argument’s sake, let us focus on the average college educated “liberal” woman who stands a good chance of finding herself equal to her male counterpart. Her roles are neatly arranged in a chronological order of her duties as a daughter, a daughter-in-law, a wife, a mother, and a breadwinner. At work, she is a “trained professional” (tightrope walker) who does a delicate balancing act of answering to her boss / colleagues, all the while attending to duty-calls from the home front to keep her well-oiled family machine functioning smoothly. They somehow always have to be operated concurrently. This multi-tasking is taxing and her focus is divided. She hesitates to take on more responsibilities at work or even a promotion because that would also require juggling while balancing on that rope! This naturally forces her to lower her tightrope to a more manageable level, thereby compromising her standing against her male counterpart.

Are women themselves responsible for not achieving equality? Yes to a certain extent because a female cannot separate herself from her own sense of obligation to others around her. She cannot distance herself from influential (mostly matriarchal) women who keep her tethered to her “other” duties. A woman who has achieved that equality mark in her career has to sacrifice a lot in terms of family life. Such women are branded as ‘driven’, ‘goal-oriented’ or ‘stubborn and self-centered’. If a woman chooses to give up her career to devote herself physically and mentally to her family, then she is constantly bombarded by this one question from her own circle of friends and family at every turn – ‘Do you work OR are you still working?’

Her aching muscles scream, “Yes, Yes,” but she chooses instead to give a long-drawn lecture defending her career choices in order to suffice their curiosity. Therefore a woman is always bound between a rock and a hard-place; no matter how much wriggle room she creates for herself.

Indu                   Ranjini  that  is interesting. As you have rightly said the emotional part of woman is partly responsible for not achieving  equality.  What is your  opinion  SPK?

SPK100                 I  think women are  not  being treated equally. Compared to the 30's and 40's, women have come a long way, but still there is a lot of things that needs to be done and lots of changes need to happen in society before we can come to a stage where both men and women are equal. There are few individuals (probably organizations) that do treat women and men the same, but the majority do not.

I wouldn't want to put the entire blame on men or on society in general, but to an extent women are responsible as well. Many of these domestic violence cases are done by a woman (MIL) against another woman (DIL). Women allow themselves to be showcased as "objects of sexual fantasies" across the entertainment world that sometimes it is very hard to differentiate who is the culprit.

While the trend might have changed in the "western world" where both men and women are looked the same (well almost), countries like India have a lot of work to be done. By far our society is still in living in ancient ways and tradition. While women have been treated with respect in the old days, over time the same has deteriorated, while the others still remain the same. There are a lot of things that women still cannot do and can do.

The modern woman must first break out of the shackles that is "restraining" her (mentally) and must be confident of taking the world. Rome was not built in a day, likewise equality will not happen tomorrow or the next day.

There are a lot of women who are already doing that, it needs to be on a grander scale and I am sure it will happen very soon.

Indu                         that  is wonderful positive thought.  Let  us hope that day comes soon. Now let us talk about woman and abuse.

It is said  that   at least one out of every three women has been beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused in her lifetime. Usually, the abuser is a member of her own family or someone known to her. Domestic violence is the largest form of abuse of women worldwide, irrespective of region, culture, ethnicity, education, class and religion.
What makes woman submit to this abuse?

Let us hear from Matheikal. What do you think Matheikal?

Matheikal                                   The obvious and simplest answer to this question is: helplessness. Any section of people who have been enslaved by a social system for centuries will feel helpless deep down in their psyches. This is the most basic problem with Indian women. (Once again, I’m referring to the rural women mostly.) Add to that subjugation, the lack of education, lack of liberty, the reinforced feeling of inferiority and the sheer muscle power of the male – then you have all the ingredients of the potential for domestic violence. If you want to liberate the woman from that subjugation and feeling of helplessness, give her proper education. The city women enjoy relatively much more liberty than her rural counterpart primarily because of the difference made by education.

Indu            That is true. The urban woman is certainly in a better position than the rural woman. And education or lack of it is the main reason. What do you think  Ranjini?

R-Sharma                          Financial distress has to be the primary reason for a woman to submit to such abuse. Lack of education follows immediately, limiting her opportunities to carve a niche for herself. Lack of awareness and plain ignorance about the existence of agencies that may offer protection and help come third on the list of reasons why she does not escape. This combined with people around her who are either oblivious to the abuse or too preoccupied with their own lives to help her, creates a sense of hopelessness. Many women also live in denial. Not having a safety net to fall back on, she is forced to accept status quo. A known devil is better than an unknown angel becomes her mantra everyday.

Indu         That's right, in many cases  financial dependence is the primary reason. What is your opinion SPK?

SPK100           Fear! fear of being ridiculed, fear of being alienated. Fear due to low self esteem.

Primarily, domestic violence has always been looked as a "private matter" that must be resolved within the family. Women are looked as home makers and almost all women are brought up in that manner. Hence, many fear that the moment they go out and talk about these abuse, they bring a bad name to their family. Also being very society conscious, it becomes even more "difficult" to come out in the open due to backlashes from the community.

Moreover, many do not "understand" the difference between what constitutes as domestic violence and what doesn't. This ignorance also is one such reason for it.

India is still a "conservative" country that places a lot of emphasis on the "old, redundant values and principles". While we have embraced a lot of new tech, this is one area that is still stuck in the distant past. Certain family values should be kept same while others must be changed to keep up with modern times, esp those that are related to how women/girls are treated by the family.

Right now, the victim does not have a lot of "help" - be it getting the culprit punished or getting the message across to the right ppl discreetly.  There must be tougher laws against these culprits and easier (discreet) methods through which the victims can get themselves heard.  A few hard punishments by the law would reduce the number of atrocities that are being committed.

Women should have the self confidence and the mental strength to come out of such a "abusive lifestyle" in order to lead a better life. Forget what the stupid society says and get on with what you want to do. Society is like a chameleon, they change colors whenever it suits them.

Indu                   You said it right SPK.  Fear of social stigma is one of the main reasons we come across in such cases. Melody what do you think?

Melody Queen                            Abuse in any form is all about power and control. The abuse originates from the position of power of men over women, reinforced again by social conditioning. Despite the progress women have made in education, despite being ambitious, despite being forward thinking, the fact remains that women still submit to such abuse.

The most common reason for submission to abuse is that women are more dependent on their spouses for economic well-being. The financial burden a woman faces increases manifold if she also has children to support and rear.

Added to that, we have years of tutoring about the virtues of a good wife, of being self-effacing in the interests of the 'family', of being the epitome of sacrifice. Many women choose to be silent bearers for fear of shame and ridicule. Legal recourse exists but is out of bounds in most cases. The police and law enforcement prefer to treat it as a private matter best left to family counsel.

Talking more specifically about domestic violence, it is part of a continuing cycle that is difficult to break. Over time, the abusive relationship tends to wear the woman down and erode her self-esteem. She may begin to doubt her ability to take care of herself and start feeling that the abuse is due to her fault.

Last but not the least, women might not realize or acknowledge that they are being abused.

Indu                Yes  many times  women does  not even realize  that they are being abused.Let us move on to my next question.

It is said that that women's health is often compromised not by lack of medical knowledge, but by infringements on women's human rights. How far you agree with this thought process? Ranjini  ?

R-Sharma                            Widespread human rights violations generally happen when a nation is going through war, turmoil, or political unrest. Under such extreme circumstances, we cannot say that women alone have been subjected to infringements. Human rights issues affect men, women, and children equally. Only difference is that women are often at a greater disadvantage, particularly if they are of the childbearing and child-rearing age. In rural parts of India and Africa, healthcare is not readily accessible to women even during times of peace. Universal healthcare seems like a rallying call that politicians use only during campaigning for office. However, making it a reality seems next to impossible. Empowering women by providing basic health education will help them make informed choices, demand better healthcare, and learn to look for help at the right places. An educated decision-maker not only helps her family, she indirectly helps herself in the process as well.

Indu            Women, get educated first!!!!!!! What do you think SPK?

SPK100                        I would say it is very much correct.  Traditionally women's role are limited to that of a wife or a mother, hence the opportunities are limited.  Plus there is a severe lack of information amongst the general population as such. Partly the govt is to be blamed for not doing enough and especially for not encouraging private sector who are willing to do more.

Educated women have a lot more access to information and solutions than that of a uneducated women

Indu             So here again the lack of education  is  being the cause. What do you say Melody?

Melody Queen            I tend to partly agree with this view. I would say women's health is compromised both by lack of medical knowledge and infringement on women's human rights. In many countries, especially in the developing world, women are considered properties and enjoy very meager rights with respect to their own bodies. So yes, even if medical knowledge and facilities are available, they might not be accessible to these women.

Indu           That is sad , isn't it? What do you think Matheikal?

Matheikal                         Medical science today is not prejudiced against women. Therefore, if women’s health is compromised it is due to sheer neglect.

Indu             Or ignorance . Let us move on to my next question. We come across woman who are part of terrorist groups. We believe that Every woman has motherly instincts in her. So what is in them that join in these terrorist groups? SPK what do you think?

SPK100                      Every living being on this planet retaliates when its space/freedom is infringed upon. Likewise when you see women in terrorist groups, there are only very limited answers to it

a) forcibly asked to join the group.
b) when they lose a family member - esp husband, father or children - due to the actions of some other organization/military.
c) when the collective local society is harmed in any way.

I am sure when we see someone "beating" our children, we would do whatever action possible. The same holds true for them as well. The majority of women in these groups are uneducated and largely ignorant of the "outside" world. So they are very much unaware of what rights they have and what can they do.

For a long time, they have seen the same thing - fighting/oppression of their ppl by someone else. And the only thing they know is taking up arms against these "oppressors". They are always victims of a clever leadership that uses them for their work using a variety of sly tactics.

While men might join the groups for power/money, women in general look at it as a way of "freeing" the future generation from the oppression they have had to endure.

Indu          That is interesting thought SPK, what do you think Melody?

Melody  Queen         As a mother, a woman nourishes and nurtures. But she doesn't have to be a mother all the time. She can be violent and destructive too! Some women, though a minuscule percentage, do participate in active terrorism. All the factors that drive men to become terrorists would apply to women too.

Some women take part in terrorism when there are very few perceived outlets for gender equality. Terrorism for them is the gateway to gain a higher rank in social hierarchy.

Ideology drives men and women equally. They believe they are legitimate combatants, fighting for what they believe, by whatever means, at any cost.

Humiliation and vengeance drive some women to terrorism. Humiliation plays a very large role in fostering aggression. They despair about the injustices – of illegitimate violation of ideals of equality and dignity-that they perceive around them. This perception gives rise to empathy, to be called a noble sufferer, but channelized destructively.

Some women support and nurture terrorism indirectly. Ironically, the very same factor of 'feminine sacrifice' is the one that drives mothers to give their sons to terrorist causes.

So while conflicts and motivations may vary, a woman's decision to pursue violent action is impacted by her own personal experiences and outcomes. When there is a perceived absence of change to her own localized conflict, she is more inclined to volunteer or be recruited for an operation to end her own suffering or that of her people.

Indu            You  are right, many times ideology is the reason for men or women to join in terrorists groups. What's your take Matheikal?

 Matheikal                 Terrorism is the weapon of the desperate and the unimaginative. People who have no idea about achieving what they want through creative ways fall prey to destructive ways. When women too take recourse to such a means, it’s high time for the society to take a serious look at its own failings which breed so much negativism, so much destructively, in certain sections of people.

Indu          Thats  right, it is high time we have to think the ways and means of terrorism in our society.What do you think Ranjini?

R-Sharma              This is still a rare and puzzling phenomenon. I always wondered if the world would have been a safer place if only women were in charge. However, here we see some women who volunteer to blow themselves up, thereby shattering our long held notion that women are incapable of such violence because of “motherly instincts”. These female terrorists do not even have human instincts, let alone motherly instincts! Many of them believe in dangerous ideologies defined by their religion and are probably brainwashed just like male terrorists. In many cases, mentally retarded women have been used to commit these terrorist acts. There may also be a few who believe that by becoming martyrs they are somehow serving their families and society. They believe this to be social service. Some may even do it for financial rewards. Evil acts conducted in the name of politics or religion cannot be justified in a rational way anyway. Gender is of no consequence here. At least in this dangerous profession, we can safely say that women have achieved equality with men!

Indu             That seems though funny, it is a fact . Here is my next Qs.In India we are having so many reality TV shows like Indian Idol, and the star voice of India and in any other major show people are not voting for girls. What could be the reason?Melody?

Melody Queen          A good question! Unfortunately (or fortunately?) I don't watch these shows. But I read some of the reports about these shows, alleging gender bias. This could mean two things. One, that the female performers aren't up to the mark. Or that the level of acceptance among the people for female performers is very low. The voting is a matter of personal preference. There might be a hidden gender bias, but that might not be the sole reason. There could be a regional bias too!

Indu              The regional feeling is too much in these shows. What do you say Matheikal?

Matheikal           I’m not sure if people consciously avoid voting for girls merely because they are girls. We live in a world that’s highly commercialized. Even relationships are commercialized. For example, today people have food, have entertainment and have sex – instead of the traditional parlance, ‘make love’. In such a commercialized world, you buy votes. Male competitors must find it easier to buy votes than the females.

Indu   That is interesting analysis and you may e right too! What about you Ranjini?

R-Sharma           Unfortunately, my knowledge about Indian reality TV shows is limited since I reside in the US. However, if the process is anything like the American reality shows, I tend to believe that the process is democratic and fair. If a large population is calling in through telephone or text-messaging, just minutes after the performance is viewed on TV, then it cannot be a coerced or influence-based voting. A pool of 1000 viewers is considered a large enough number to give a reliable democratic result. Could it be that the male performers received greater publicity and coverage before or after each stage appearance compared to females? Media could have definitely influenced the voters. However, I do not believe that certain performers have been opted out of the competition simply based on gender. I believe in the sheer power of numbers.

Indu              The power of numbers is the key word. SPK What is your opinion?

SPK00             

I do not know about the voting system, but generally most TV shows are measured by the ratings they can get. So, if in any particular show, there is a "guy" who has a lot of popularity then the show is "scripted" keeping him in the show for as long as possible. You mustn't forget most of these guys have a huge female following.

As I mentioned above about the social status ,  girls in general are not "encouraged" to participate in large numbers in these events. The saddest part is, most of those who do participate are looked purely as an object of physical desire and not at all for their talent. More over these TV shows have a lot at stake as well, there is no guarantee what the winning girl will do. I will stop short by just providing 2 examples of women who just bring shame to the entire community and not just for women in general - Rakhi Sawant and Sheryln Chopra. I am sure there are more such ppl, but these are the major 2 that came to my mind and those in order to be in the limelight do all sorts of stupid things. Imagine if someone who wins a show that has been run by IBNLIVE/NDTV does the same, what would the advertisers of these 2 channels/show think? Unnecessarily they would be subjected to all sorts of questions and discussions. In order to avoid them, no one keen to run a show on women and those who do, run them at a very low profile in order to attract less attention.

Indu              SPK  this is entirely unexpected answer. Hope Rakhi Sawant does not read this!  I think it is very clear from all these discussions that financial independence  has yet to be achieved  by the women.  Education is one of the most important factor  that help the women to get economic independence. Now before winding up this interesting discussion your message to our readers.

R-Sharma         My Women’s Day message is a request directed to all educated women.

Take the initiative to educate at least one woman in your life who has never had an opportunity or the time to learn basic reading or writing skills. If you are a computer professional, impart some of your knowledge and skills to a woman who is hesitating to take that first step. This inexpensive but unique gift will help her go a long way in being self-sufficient and a little more confident to stand up for herself with courage.

I once had a wonderful opportunity to teach a college professor who had suffered a brain aneurysm. She had a couple of PHDs and yet she had to re-learn all the basic skills all over again, including speech and language! She had never used computers before and was too scared to learn this new skill, especially after this health scare. However, in little more than 2 months, she acquired enough skills to post her courses online! She felt very thankful that she no longer had to fear computers anymore.

Matheikal            Gender equality should come into being gracefully in any civilized society. That is to say, it should be born of the awareness about its natural inevitability. Merely trying to achieve it by hook or by crook will lead to violence at home and in society.

Melody Queen          The strength of womanhood is in being a woman. Your womanhood is yours already; there is nothing to be fought about it. Take pride in being a woman. To be born a woman is a boon, the fruit of an arduous penance. Use this boon wisely.

SPK100                  Most of us do not acknowledge the innumerable sacrifices that women make on a daily basis. Whether its your mother, sister or your wife, we constantly forget it. Once in a while we all need to be reminded how special women are. This day is an opportunity for all of us -- women and men -- to unite in a cause that embraces all humankind. Empowering women is a necessity for building better lives for everyone on the planet.

Dawn is not far away. The long period of darkness is almost over. A brand new day awaits us all and with it brings a brand new era of success and brand new beginning for all.

Indu                That is a positive note to end the discussion.  Thank you R-Sharma, Melody Queen, Matheikal, SPK100. It is a pleasure to have you all as my guests @ Page 3 of Indu.

I am sure all the readers  must have enjoyed the thoughts of our guests. I request the readers to share their views on the points we have discussed here.

Happy Woman's day !

Indu